After receiving the reply from my young correspondent, informing me that he did not desire to continue the discussion, I felt that I had to reach out in sincerity in a final attempt to shake some doubt into his confidence in the teachings of Calvin. Here's what I wrote:
Why are you so angry? I am not your enemy because I tell you the truth. You don't even understand how terribly you contradicted yourself in the following (my reply with your response underlined):
Why are you so angry? I am not your enemy because I tell you the truth. You don't even understand how terribly you contradicted yourself in the following (my reply with your response underlined):
"Spurgeon believed that the law of God was vindicated, kept flawlessly and His wrath eternally satisfied Yes, substitutionary atonement -- and that in whatever way it may be called "grace," God owes the elect because, in Christ, the law of God is vindicated, kept flawlessly and imputed to them. That's what you believe, ____________. Once again I will state for clarity, I DO NOT believe that God owes man anything. Nothing, No, Zero. Zilch. Nada."
____________, you cannot have it both ways. Either the vicarious obedience and death of Jesus Christ imputed to man EARNS him salvation, or it is of grace. I believe it is by grace through faith, embodied and expressed in obedience (Colossians 2:12). But every Calvinist on the Planet, who knows what Calvin and the reformers taught, knows that Calvin argued that the MERIT of the FLAWLESS MORAL EXCELLENCE and PERFECT OBEDIENCE of Christ (1) vindicated the law of God, and (2) satisfied Divine justice, and (3) appeased otherwise implacable Divine wrath. THAT is what Calvinism teaches, and THAT is what Spurgeon believed and taught. Furthermore, THAT has man saved by MERIT and NOT by grace, your whinings and the preachments of Calvinists to the contrary, notwithstanding.
My prayers for your repentance attend this note. I will patiently await your reply, but understand that you may not want to continue the discussion.
Quite frankly, I did not expect a reply. But, to my surprise, my correspondent sent a final reply:
Quite frankly, I did not expect a reply. But, to my surprise, my correspondent sent a final reply:
RP, Once again, I will follow the same path as I have before, except this time, I'll write my response in bold.
Why are you so angry? *grin* I don't know where you get that I am angry. Upset, yes? Why? Because you are trying to tell me what I believe. That is very haughty, prideful and irritating. I am not your enemy because I tell you the truth. I never said that you were my enemy, and about the truth, yes it is your version of the truth. Thus far you have given me NO scripture to support this supposed truth. You don't even understand how terribly you contradicted yourself in the following (my reply with your response underlined):
"Spurgeon believed that the law of God was vindicated, kept flawlessly and His wrath eternally satisfied Yes, substitutionary atonement -- and that in whatever way it may be called "grace," God owes the elect because, in Christ, the law of God is vindicated, kept flawlessly and imputed to them. That's what you believe, ____________. Once again I will state for clarity, I DO NOT believe that God owes man anything. Nothing, No, Zero. Zilch. Nada."
____________, you cannot have it both ways. Yes you can. Either the vicarious obedience and death of Jesus Christ imputed to man EARNS him salvation, or it is of grace. I do not see why you are trying to separate the two. The two work hand in hand. The salvation that WE receive is all of grace and not by the works of man, but by Christ's perfect work, through the keeping of the law, and His sacrifice. God desires a sacrifice for the sins of men, either that of man's soul, or that paid by with the blood of Christ. You are trying to pit the work of Christ against the grace of God when they work hand in hand. I believe it is by grace through faith Who's faith?, embodied and expressed in obedience Who's obedience? (Colossians 2:12). But every Calvinist on the Planet, who knows what Calvin and the reformers taught, knows that Calvin argued that the MERIT of the FLAWLESS MORAL EXCELLENCE and PERFECT OBEDIENCE of Christ (1) vindicated the law of God, and (2) satisfied Divine justice, and (3) appeased otherwise implacable Divine wrath. Amen. So I suppose I fail to see your point. THAT is what Calvinism teaches, and THAT is what Spurgeon believed and taught. Furthermore, THAT has man saved by MERIT and NOT by grace Wrong. The deed had to be done for man to be saved. But salvation is still by the grace of God for it is given freely, not out of compulsion or obligation. God was not obligated to save anyone. In fact, if it were not for the grace of God and the work of Christ, all men would perish and burn in hell for eternity. , your whining and the preachments of Calvinists to the contrary, notwithstanding.
My prayers for your repentance attend this note. Repentance from what? To what? I will patiently await your reply, but understand that you may not want to continue the discussion. You know, it seems that we are both standing firm on what we believe. We can continue to discuss this issue if you like, but I don't see the point. I will just be praying that the Lord will reveal to you His truth in His time.
By the way, how exactly do you believe that man is saved? If it is not by the work that Christ has done then what is it by? Man's own works?
I must admit that the reply from this young and sincere correspondent gave me some hope for his future conversion to Christ. I was surprised that he tried to diminish the force of my contrast between flawless works and grace, since he must understand that his system of theology tries--howbeit in vain--to uphold that contrast (but one of many contradictions in Calvinism).
At the end of his reply, he posed a fair question and I replied, hoping it might induce him to reply, yet again and thus, to prolong the discussion until such a time as we could be brought to agreement on the scripture and the truth contained therein. Having posed a fair question, he deserved an honest reply...and I gave it. The final post in this series contains my reply to his question...
I must admit that the reply from this young and sincere correspondent gave me some hope for his future conversion to Christ. I was surprised that he tried to diminish the force of my contrast between flawless works and grace, since he must understand that his system of theology tries--howbeit in vain--to uphold that contrast (but one of many contradictions in Calvinism).
At the end of his reply, he posed a fair question and I replied, hoping it might induce him to reply, yet again and thus, to prolong the discussion until such a time as we could be brought to agreement on the scripture and the truth contained therein. Having posed a fair question, he deserved an honest reply...and I gave it. The final post in this series contains my reply to his question...
